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Saturday, January 28, 2012

Vol 08 No 05 Liberty ViewsLetter 01-28-2012

Vol 08 No 05 Liberty ViewsLetter 01-28-2012
Eighth Year, Issue 311
The announcement of Liberty ViewsLetter goes to 628 up 14 subscribers last week

We invite your comments and feedback. We invite your submissions; articles you have read. Send us a link. Or you can send us something you have written yourself.

Managing Editor Chuck McGlawn Chuckest@aol.com
Contributing Editors
Walter Clark/Paula Clark
Chuck McGlawn

To subscribe, unsubscribe, comment or to submit, go to > Liberty  ViewsLetter

PreViews
Congratulations, if you are reading this you have successfully responded to and navigated your way to the Fifth issue of our new Liberty Views Website. The format will be much the same as before. Our major sections will be  LibertyViews Where we present an abbreviation or Quotes From Commentaries from reliable sources with links to the FULL ARTICLE. Starting with the lead article, that we call Your Must Read for the Week. The NewsViews where we will present an abbreviation or Quotes From Liberty significant news articles from very diverse sources with links to the FULL ARTICLE. We will also continue to include  ChallengeViews, WordViews, ReaderViews,  AnnounceViews and Audio/VideoViews. There is another element, least important but most demanding, that being called PersonalViews. Each element is separated by a joke, a quote or some interesting trivia. Please Read on…



LibertyViews

Your Must Read For The Week Reducing Real Output by Increasing Federal Spending by Dwight R. Lee
The belief that by spending more, the federal government can revive the economy by increasing aggregate demand is an example of the triumph of hope over experience. Many people excuse the recent failures of such stimulus spending with the claim that the spending simply wasn't large enough. This demand-side view is oblivious to the supply-side reality that demanding more does no good unless more has been, or will be, produced. The logic of this reality explains why trying to increase aggregate demand through increased federal spending is not the key to stimulating the economy. The problem is not that aggregate demand is unimportant—it is very important. The problem is that increased real aggregate demand is the result, not the cause, of an increasingly productive and prosperous economy
I invite, encourage, entice, influence, pressure, persuade, cajole, coax, plead, request can I demand? Or would a threat of bodily harm move you to read FULL ARTICLE at http://tinyurl.com/LibertyViews-MustRead311   This is NECESSARY INFORNATION, making it a MUST READ. This article is “Chuckfull” very basic information and analysis. GET THE FACTS CONTAINED IMPRINTED ON YOUR MIND. THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND AND BE READY TO PRESENT COGENT INFORMATION ABOUT THIS SUBJECT. READ THE FULL ARTICLE and then FORWARD IT TO EVERYONE ON YOUR E-MAILLIST.
*********************************
One day my housework-challenged husband decided to wash his Sweatshirt. Seconds after he stepped into the laundry room, he shouted to me, "What setting do I use on the washing machine?"
"It depends," I replied. "What does it say on your shirt?"
He yelled back, "University of Oklahoma."
And they say blondes are dumb...
**********************************
PersonalViews. Next Week
Ron Paul for President 2012.
*********************************
If a tree fell on a mime, would he make a sound?
A couple is lying in bed. The man says, "I am going to make you the happiest
woman in the world." The woman replies, "I'll miss you..".
**********************************
ChallengeViews Name six or more things that you can wear on your feet,
that begin with the letter "s." John Foster was first with: sox, shoes, sandals, slippers, sneakers, swim fins, skates, skis, snowboard, snow shoes

This Week’s Challenge. There is only one vegetable that is never sold frozen, canned, processed, cooked, or in any other form but fresh. What is it? Send your answer to Chuckest@aol.com . Answer posted next week.
**********************************
PLEASE NOTICE: You may have noticed the increased amount of notices for
you to notice. Some of our notices have not been noticed. This is very
noticeable. It has been noticed that the responses to the notices have been
noticeably unnoticed. This notice is to remind you to notice the notices and
respond to the notices because we do not want the notices to go unnoticed.
The Department of Notification
**********************************
ReaderViews  Place your ReaderViews in Comments on the blog.

**********************************
Immigrant Entrepreneurs Helping Drive Job Growth In The U.S.
by Resources for Entrepreneurs Staff 1/27/2012
Report by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Immigration Policy Center reveals that immigrant businesses create jobs and strengthen the U.S. economy.

A joint report released by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the Immigration Policy Center (IPC) points to the importance of immigrant entrepreneurs in the U.S. economy and initiates calls for policymakers to shape legislation making it easier for global entrepreneurs to launch businesses in the U.S.

"There is very little disagreement among researchers and experts that immigrant entrepreneurship is a powerful and valuable asset to America's economic future," said Benjamin Johnson, executive director of the American Immigration Council.  When new immigrant workers and consumers are present in a local community, businesses expand and additional jobs are created. The IPC points out that immigrants and native-born workers typically don't compete in the same job markets due to differences in education, occupations and other factors. Instead, the two labor forces complement each other, raising the productivity and wages of native-born workers. Read the FULL ARTICLE at, http://tinyurl.com/LibertyViews311a
**********************************
To do is to be. -Descartes
To be is to do. -Voltaire
Do be do be do. -Frank Sinatra
**********************************
Quotes from (All emphasis added)
Repeal Alabama's immigration law By Raul Reyes
All the unintended consequences that forced lawmakers to backtrack on the law.

Agriculture industry. Farmers face a crisis because migrant workers have fled the state, and U.S. workers haven't filled the gaps.--- Officials are considering using work-release prisoners to fill the jobs.

Business reputation. A Mercedes-Benz executive was arrested for driving without proper identification required under the new law.--- Two weeks later, a Honda official was ticketed for driving without a proper license.

Legal residents. Renewing a state license  requires proof of citizenship. Causing long lines at courthouses and city halls, which equals lost hours of productivity.

Local businesses, schools and clinics. As many undocumented workers and their families have fled Alabama, businesses that catered to them have closed, depriving the state of tax revenue. --- Alabama's undocumented population collectively paid $130 million in state and local taxes in 2010. --- The Alabama Department of Education reports that hundreds of Hispanic students have stopped going to school since the law took effect. Read the FULL ARTICLE at http://tinyurl.com/Immigration-LibertyViews311B
**********************************
Q: Why do little boys whine?
A: They are practicing to be men.

Q: What does it mean when a man is in your bed gasping for breath and calling
your name?
A: You did not hold the pillow down long enough.

Q: How do you keep your husband from reading your e-mail?
A: Rename the mail folder "Instruction Manuals"
**********************************
Audio/VedioViews Next Week
Ron Paul Highlights at the Republican NBC News Debate in Florida

Ron Paul Highlights of 1/19/2012 CNN Debate
**********************************
A man and his wife, now in their 60's, were celebrating their 40th wedding
anniversary. On their special day a good fairy came to them and said that
because they had been so good that each one of them could have one wish. The
wife wished for a trip around the world with her husband.
Whoosh! Immediately she had airline/cruise tickets in her hands.
The man wished for a female companion 30 years younger... Whoosh...immediately
he turned ninety!!!
**********************************
More LibertyViews: Just a headline, a grabber and a link.
Ethnic Entrepreneurs Written by Nidhi Ann Raj for Gaebler Ventures
When millions of immigrant entrepreneurs set up business, they face challenges. Despite that, they boost the economy of their host countries. http://www.gaebler.com/Ethnic-Entrepreneurs.htm

Spend a $2 bill at Starbucks on Feb. 14 by Robert Farago Truth About Guns (01/25/12)
Reward Starbucks for its letter-of-the-law firearms policy. Buy something with a two dollar bill on Feb. 14th http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng

Thou shalt not covet by Jacob G. Hornberger Future of Freedom Foundation
President Obama says that people are poor because others are rich. What a crock that is.  (01/26/12) http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2012-01-26.asp

NewsViews

Georgia bill would delay E-Verify for small businesses Associated Press
January 26, 2012       Reps. Glenn Baker (D-Jonesboro) and Mack Jackson (D-Sandersville) filed legislation that would extend the deadline before companies are required to use the federal E-Verify database to screen new hires. [The] plan would push back the database deadline for small companies with more than 10 but fewer than 50 employees from 2013 to 2015 . . . read more
 **********************************
What do "Occasional Tables" do for the rest of the time?

Why isn't 11 and 12 pronounced "onety-one and onety two"?
**********************************
Georgia Democrats seek to repeal tough immigration law
Atlanta Journal-Constitution January 23, 2012
Democratic state lawmakers say they will seek to repeal parts of Georgia’s tough new immigration enforcement law . . . but the chances of such a repeal passing this year are slim. Georgia’s Republican-controlled Legislature overwhelmingly approved House Bill 87 in April before Republican Gov. Nathan Deal signed it into law in May . . .
read more
**********************************
If a case of the clap spreads, is it then considered a case of the applause?

If soap makes things clean, why does it leave a scum?
**********************************
Iran is ready to return to nuclear talks Source: Southern California Press-Enterprise
"Iran is ready to revive talks with the U.S. and other world powers, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday, but suggested that Tehran's foes will have to make compromises to prevent negotiations from again collapsing in stalemate. Iran's insistence that it will never give up uranium enrichment -- the process that makes material for reactors as well as weapons -- scuttled negotiations a year ago and still looms as a potential deal breaker even as tougher Western sanctions target Iran's critical oil exports." (01/26/12) http://tinyurl.com/878ascb
**********************************
"It's just too hot to wear clothes today," Jack says as he ?stepped out of the shower, "honey, what do you think the neighbors would think if I mowed the lawn like this?"

"Probably that I married you for your money," she replied.
**********************************
More NewsViews Just a headline, a grabber and a link..

NY: Embarrassing "SHCOOL" sign replaced Source: Yahoo! News 01/25/11
"An embarrassing misspelling of 'school' is gone from the street outside the Manhattan building that houses three schools had been there since July 2010." http://yhoo.it/z2escq

Poland signs on to Internet censorship treaty  Atlanta Journal-Constitution 01/26/12
"Poland signed the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, or ACTA, Hundreds of people took to the streets to express their anger over the treaty." http://tinyurl.com/6vpjubq

US seeks greater military presence in Philippines Source: MSNBC (01/25/12)

Expanding the U.S. military presence to counter China in the Pacific. RON PAUL NEEDED HERE. http://tinyurl.com/7vttw7d
*********************************
What do they call male meter maids? Meter butlers?

Why do they advertise the "World Famous, Secret Caverns"? Which is it, Famous or Secret?
**********************************
WordViews by Walt Clark
fiduciary  fih-DOO-shee-AIR-ee  (adjective) : Relating to the holding of something
 in trust for another.  
SYNONYMS:
property is the most general of words that means ownership; a word that for libertarians
 almost defines what humans are
belongings are the temporary and portable version of owned things
holdings is close to fiduciary in that in a context of money means of value, closely
 guarded

WORD WISE: Fiduciary comes from Latin fiduciarius, from  
fiducia, "trust," and is related to faith and fidelity.  

QUOTE: "Corporate boards, whose members are elected by share-  
holders, bear the ultimate legal and fiduciary responsibility  
for the company's performance."  
--John Maggs, "Out of the Loop," National Journal, March 9,  
2002  

If your Goals require the initiation of force, then reevaluate your Goals.

20 comments:

chuckest said...

If you want to post a comment Type your comment, go to "OpenID" below, craft a name then Publish Your Comment

Anonymous said...

Two observations:

1) In the future we ask you to distinquish between LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigration in your comments on the immigration topic. Blending both into one term confuses the issue and your readers.

2) Illegal migrants in Alabama are violating US labor laws and US immigration laws, and are committing felonies by perpetrating identity theft. Fleeing Alabama only confirms for us that they know they are guilty of these violations. The fact that they are fleeing is a healthy sign. Criminals should be scared. If they are not scared something is terribly wrong with our system.

chuckest said...

A4 said, "distinquish between LEGAL and ILLEGAL"

The only difference in legal and illegal is a few words on a piece of paper. It is called a statute. It is called the rule of man. The Rule of Law is the Declaration of Independence, where it says "...that all men are created equal, and they are endowed by their creator certain unalienable rights..." listed as: "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Then it goes on to say, "Governments are instituted among men, deriving their powers from the governed." The government being referred to here is our National Government.Our States already had governments.

This means our National Government had no powers over immigration. The States, did not give any power over immigration to the National Government. Nor did any State assume any powers over immigration for any place other than their own State.

Our National Government has assumed powers.That aspect of the National Government is the source of almost all of our problems.

If the National Government had not changed that then I and you and A4 would know the effect of immigration to our economy.

I posed this question: “What is it that makes of a rat trap anything other than just a piece of wood and some wire.” It is the cheese. The cheese is:“Free education and medical care. With those item taken off of the table, we would have a different mix of immigrants. Free hospitalization and citizenship for babies born in the US.

In fact some say, there are powerful indicators that without criminalizing border crossings, Mexicans would come into the US for a few months, then go home to their families. With criminalization the immigrant, comes to the US and saves the money to bring his family Here. By criminalizing border crossings the Government caused the high cost of medical services. Without the ability medial care hospitals passed that cost onto the paying patients. By criminalizing border crossings the Government caused school over-crowding, lower scholastic results and a higher drop-out rate.

If we were to just let the States decide their own immigration policy, then the States would learn how to get even greater benefits from the very flexible low cost labor than they are producing right now.

chuckest said...

A4 said, “Illegal migrants in Alabama are violating US labor laws and US immigration laws, and are committing felonies by perpetrating identity theft.” This is not an indictment of anyone but the National Government. Because Alabama has the right to pass HR56. Then the people of Alabama would come to know, that the so-called illegals were responsible for much of the prosperity. Because they are on the learning curve. That teaches that immigrants are not competing for jobs that native-born citizens want. They are going to learn that the absence of needed workers will cause a drop in tax revenues. They will learn that the farmer’s are being forced to cut back on planting and planting less labor-intensive crops are going to hurt farm profits and tax revenues.

A4, in light of your continued insistence that making immigration more and more difficult is a detriment to the prosperity of a community might cause some to say that you are STUPID. Then what would you do, if in whatever State you lived made STUPID a crime to where would you migrate?

BTW, I would have loved for you to respond to the problems that are being caused by the passage of HR56.

Let me list some for you. Farmers face a crisis because migrant workers have fled the state.
U.S. workers haven't filled the gaps.[Surprise surprise]
Officials are considering using work-release prisoners to fill the jobs. [Think about this one. We are going to release violent criminals to fill the gap created by laws that are passed making peaceful workers CRIMINALS.]
Undocumented workers and their families have fled Alabama, businesses that catered to them have closed, depriving the state of tax revenue. --- Alabama's undocumented population collectively paid $130 million in state and local taxes in 2010.

Here is hoping they do not make STUPID a crime.

Anonymous said...

And with all of Mr. McGlawn's rants and raves over what great prosperity open borders and open migration would bring us....he still can't point to even one major global economy that promotes open and unregulated borders. And, dear readers, as I have told you many, many times before....if open borders was such a wonderful ally of prosperity.....everyone would be doing it. Yet nobody does. Use your common sense, my dear readers.

If a thief konked Mr. McGlawn over his skull with a pipe and stole his wallet ..... he would be screaming for 'rule of law'. But if illegal migrants violate our US Immigration laws and steal your job and live off resources paid for by your taxdollars Mr. McGlawn refers to 'rule of law' as 'rule of man' and therefore flawed.

He likes only laws that benefit him personally. The thief wants strongarmed robbery to be legal too, Mr. McGlawn. Who are you to impose the 'rule of man' on the thief???

chuckest said...

chuckest said...

A4 said, “McGlawn raves over what great prosperity open borders and open migration would bring us.”

Well A4, if you keep your eyes open, and you stay away from that Kool-Aid you are going to see what happens to Alabama, because they have too many like you, and not enough like me. You will see some Alabama law makers eating a little crow. And we will also see you avoid the subject of Alabama taking an economic downturn as a result of their HB56.

You will continue to ignore two degreed Economist who say, “legalization of low-skilled immigrant workers would yield significant income gains for American workers and households.”

And when they go on to say, “A policy that reduces the number of low-skilled immigrant workers by 28.6percent compared to projected levels would reduce U.S. household incomes by about 0.5 percent, or $80 billion.”

It will be hard to ignore their study that shows, “The positive impact for U.S. households of legalization under an optimal visa tax would be [an increase of] 1.27 percent of GDP or $180 billion.” but you will. In a cloud of smoke and chest beating you will assert, that if it were true, then why are we not sending out ships to bring more illegals into the country.

It will be a little more difficult, when Fox News, the cradle of all truth reports, “Some [Alabama] producers said they might reduce the number of acres they plant or shift to less labor-intensive crops, while others are bracing for higher labor prices and have turned to new recruiting tools to attract workers.” Just a hint of the problems caused by HR56.

The issues I wanted you to address were things like, “Since the laws were approved last year, farmers in both states have reported labor shortages because migrant workers aren't showing up and they say they can't find other workers to fill the jobs.”

Naa, A4 wants to talk about my failure to, “point to even one major global economy that promotes open and unregulated borders.” A4 wants to theorize about how open border, “laws that benefit him personally.” I am retired, and have been retired for almost a quarter of a century. I do not employ anyone. And when I was running my business, I hired one illegal immigrant, and I started him at lower than minimum wage. But after two years he was making $10.00 per hour in 1980 when minimum wage was less than $5.00 per hour. I paid him $10.00 per hour because he was worth $20.00 an hour to me, and no one forced me.

Let us deal with the border question. I nor most Libertarians do not advocate “No Borders” I simply believe that job seeking Mexicans should be able to enter the US unchallenged by the US Government.

Just for the sake of discussion, let us say a migrant worker came to the Border Crossing near San Diego. Let us further say that California had a three month waiting period where blood was taken forms filled out a background check was being conducted, and a thumb print and retina scan was recorded. That migrant could enter California, not to work, but to travel to, say Nevada where work was available immediately.

This migrant could visit California (if Calif. Law permitted it) but he could not take a job. He could take a train to Nevada and work during his Calif. Waiting period, and then come back to Calif. Once he was screened.

A handy brochure could be had that provided phone numbers and basic migrant work laws of all the States.

I have always said States have total control of their borders, and can admit or reject anyone that applied.

That is, “What could be”. A4 should deal with what is. Like, “In Georgia, some growers of the state's famed Vidalia onions are planting fewer acres of the labor-intensive crop, which could lead to a roughly 10 percent drop in production, said Bob Stafford, director of the Vidalia Onion Business Council.”

Come on A4, just face the truth, migrant workers boost prosperity, exactly like draconian immigration laws kills prosperity.

Anonymous said...

"And we will also see you avoid the subject of Alabama taking an economic downturn as a result of their HB56"


Alabama is doing fine. Just think how many leeches who steal public services, commit crimes and live off the dole must now go leech off a neighboring state. No longer wil they be Alabama's problem. A huge cost saver. If the farmers need strawberry pickers we have LEGAL temporary visa worker programs for them to use. But naturally they want to use ILLEGAL LABORERS since they can pay them sub-par minimum wage and treat them like little slaves. So no wonder they bitch about it. They want Alabama to return to the old slave days.

"You will continue to ignore two degreed Economist...."

F the degreed economists. Most of them spin their message to agree with the agenda of the organization that pays them. I trust very few degreed economists.

I will take what Mr. McGlawn says seriously when he allows an illegal immigrant family to move into his home - feed them and provide each of them with health care from his own personal funds.

But it's okay if the illegals live off your dime.

"Come on A4, just face the truth, migrant workers boost prosperity, exactly like draconian immigration laws kills prosperity"

ILLEGAL migrant workers do not boost prosperity. If unregulated borders boosted prosperity ALL NATIONS WOULD IMMEDIATELY repeal their immigration laws.

And you still cannot name ONE prosperous nation that allows migrant workers to cross into their nation at will without regulation, screening and authorization.

If unregulated borders brought prosperity - all nations would do it.

chuckest said...

When we documented that “Alabama [is] taking an economic downturn as a result of their HB56"

A4 said, “Alabama is doing fine.” Oh yea, then why is Fox News reported, “Farmers have begun changing their plans for planting and harvesting this year's crops because of the worry that tough new immigration laws will create work shortages.” See http://tinyurl.com/6smr2he

A4 said, “Just think how many leeches must go [to] a neighboring state. No longer will they be Alabama's problem. A huge cost saver.” Oh yea, where are those savings being deposited, because, USA Today is reporting, “As many undocumented workers and their families have fled Alabama, businesses that catered to them have closed, depriving the state of tax revenue. --- Alabama's undocumented population collectively paid $130 million in state and local taxes in 2010.” See http://tinyurl.com/Immigration-LibertyViews311B

A4 said, “If the farmers need strawberry pickers we have LEGAL temporary visa worker programs for them to use.” Government program to the rescue, yea right. So A4 thinks that the government that has caused the problem in the first place has an additional program to solve the problem. One might ask what do the Farmers that are faced with the problem are saying about government programs? The Associated Press reports,
“[A] federal guest worker program, known as H-2A, which lets farmers bring in an unlimited number of temporary agriculture workers.” Farmers say, “The federal guest worker program,is too expensive and doesn't allow enough flexibility. And tough to get the timing just right and sometimes his workers' visas run out before the end of the harvest.
A4 said, “But naturally they want to use ILLEGAL LABORERS since they can pay them sub-par minimum wage and treat them like little slaves. So no wonder they bitch about it. They want Alabama to return to the old slave days.”

I challenge A4 to document those allegations.

When we pointed to another two Degreed Economist disagreed with him he said, “F the degreed economists. Most of them spin their message to agree with the agenda of the organization that pays them. I trust very few degreed economists.” No documentation of course.

A4 said, “ILLEGAL migrant workers do not boost prosperity.” A4, where is your proof. From where do you pull these charges” We recently quoted, “Immigrant Entrepreneurs Helping Drive Job Growth In The U.S. Published: 1/27/2012 from a Report by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Immigration Policy Center reveals that immigrant businesses create jobs and strengthen the U.S. economy.

chuckest said...

Note, I have deleted A4's Last two postings. I will deal with everything he has said in those post, one item at a time. When we have come to some conclusion I will then go to the next item of his posts that I deleted. .

In the first post I deleted was this item:

A4 said, "advocating open immigration policies WITHOUT FIRST reforming the public welfare system is advocating for the collapse of America as we know it."

A4 could have credited that statement to libertarian economist Milton Friedman, And I do not disagree. However, unless you are an outright bigot then you would advocate building a fence around the welfare system instead of building a fence around the US. Then peaceful people could come to the US legally and fill jobs that Americans are trained to avoid.

Wouldn't you agree, A4 that it would be better to reform Social Services than to spend billions on border control?

chuckest said...

Note, I have deleted A4's Last two (Now three) comments. I will deal with everything he has said in those posts one item at a time. When we have come to a conclusion I will go to the next item.

A4 said. “Illegal invaders are already a huge burden on our welfare system,”

Could we have some numbers, and some sources. Characterizing it as huge would indicate that illegals are taking a disproportional amount when compared to citizen Mexicans and citizen blacks and citizen whites. Because I think (notice I said, “I think”) all three of the citizen categories are on the dole in much higher percentages. Either provide us with some numbers or change your “huge” description.

A4 said, “Illegal invaders are already a huge burden on our education system” Again the characterization of “huge” is unfair. Remember A4, illegals pay property taxes through their rents. It is property taxes that support the school system. Therefore, they are paying to support the educational system.

Furthermore, since the percentage of Mexican workers that are here with out their families, I think (notice I said, “I think”) those men are paying for the education of our citizen children.

A4 said, “Illegal invaders are already a huge burden on our hospitals.” I would truly like to know how you can put the “huge” description here. I suppose you can go into an emergency room and tell which ones and what percentage of the patients are legal and illegal.

chuckest said...

Me thinks A4 is an outright BIGOT.

chuckest said...

I deleted A4s post that started with, "You can hurl all the false epithets that you want, Mr. McGlawn. Water off a duck's back.

DEAL WITH THE ISSUES. I POSTED TWO PAGES OF THEM. I ASKED FOR NUMBERS, I ASKED FOR DOCUMENTATION. AND YOU RESPOND TO MY CALLING YOU A BIGOT. WHEN YOU BLAME EVERY PROBLEMS ON "ILLEGAL INVADERS" ONE MUST QUESTION YOUR AGENDA.

chuckest said...

a4 SAID, "you delete my comments because they contain way too much truth for you to handle."

i HAVE DEALT WITH SOME OF WHAT YOU POSTED, AND YOU HAVE NOT DEalt whith an of my refutations.

A4 said, "We spend more than $113B each year in the United States to provide social services for illegal invaders - welfare, health care, education, incarceration, etc...

Perhaps, but we collect $339B in taxes to offset the 113 billion.

Deal with what I have already posted. we will deal with jaunita's childbirth later. child costing the taxpayers $2M to take care of in just the first year.

chuckest said...

In my post I said, referring to the $139B paid by the National Government,that became just 113B. When he defended the 113B which he didn't document I said, "Perhaps, but we collect $339B in taxes to offset the 113 billion" and his reply that my number was, "Total bullshit"

Listen Bigot, I will document my $339B in taxes collected by the National Government, when you document the National Government paying #113b in Social Services for illegals.

And readers, if you read up, you will find that he tried to sell you that the National Government spent $133b Not $113B which is not correct. Let's see how he dances out of this one.

chuckest said...

A4 said, I already documented the $113B several blogs ago. It came directly from fed government data. And those were 2010 numbers.

And A4 I already documented my $339B numbers.

chuckest said...

Following is some of what A4 said that I deleted.

A4 said, “Nationally, we spend $133B a year to provide social services for the illegal invaders.”

I think you are cooking the numbers here. That statement is a major distortion and exaggeration.

Readers, please note how A4 has a slight slip of the Key Strokes. First it is not $133 billion, but $113 billion. Just a 20 billion ERROR. BUT WAIT THERE IS MORE.

The Study that A4 is MISQUOTING points out that illegals themselves pay 13 billion OF THE AMOUNT. So now, it drops from 133 billion to 100 billion. BUT WAIT THERE IS MORE..

Notice, that A4 said, “Nationally”. Were you left with the impression that our National Government’s expenditures were 133 billion, that we have whittled down to 100 billion. If yes, then you have been fooled. According to the FAIR report, the “Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. Taxpayers” is only $29B. So the number $133B that A4 used to stir your anger is really only $29B. BUT WAIT THERE IS MORE.

Please note that, the “Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. TAXPAYERS”. Many, some say most of the illegals steal SS numbers and work “On The Books” which means that illegals are included in THOSE “US TAXPAYERS”. BUT WAIT THERE IS MORE. (later)

chuckest said...

In a post by A4 which I just deleted.

A4 said, "The fed government itself has stated that most illegal invaders pay no income taxes at all.

AND Mark Kirkorian, the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies [This is an organization that not only opposes illegal immigration they oppose the high level of legal immigration. On their web site they admit that, “The data collected by the Center during the past quarter-century has led many of our researchers to conclude that current, high levels of immigration are making it harder to achieve such important national objectives as better public schools, a cleaner environment, homeland security, and a living wage for every native-born and immigrant worker.”]

[Still quoting from the article] "During a debate at the Cato Institute said, Kikorian says, “MOST ILLEGALS IMMIGRANTS WORK ON THE BOOKS [Let me repeat that, "MOST ILLEGALS WORK ON THE BOOKS.](Emphasis added) They have given a fake or a stolen Social Security number…” This means they are paying the same Income Taxes that Joe Legal pays, with no hope of getting a refund check if they overpay. You can see the debate at http://www.cato.org/event.php?eventid=7334. I invite you to watch the entire debate, but you can hear the above quote soon after the 45 min. mark.

Please document the statement by the Federal Government.

Anonymous said...

Here, I'll post it again for you.

http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/USCostStudy_2010.pdf?docID=4921

Over 85 pages documenting the GOVERNENT'S OWN NUMBERS and explaining to you why illegal invaders are NET LOSSES TO AMERICA.

chuckest said...

A4 said, "The fed government itself has stated that most illegal invaders pay no income taxes at all.

That is the statement that I wanted you to document.

A4 you need to take off your BIGOT colored glasses and look more closely at the title of the study to know the numbers are inherently erroneous. The title of the FAIR study is, “the fiscal burden of illegal immigration on United States Taxpayers” Tell us, A4 Who are US Taxpayers? Illegal immigrants are US taxpayers. According to Mark Kirkorian, the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies [This is an organization that not only opposes illegal immigration they oppose the high level of legal immigration. On their web site they admit that, “The data collected by the Center during the past quarter-century has led many of our researchers to conclude that current, high levels of immigration are making it harder to achieve such important national objectives as better public schools, a cleaner environment, homeland security, and a living wage for every native-born and immigrant worker.”]

[Still quoting from the article] "During a debate at the Cato Institute said, Kikorian says, “MOST ILLEGALS IMMIGRANTS WORK ON THE BOOKS [Let me repeat that, "MOST ILLEGALS WORK ON THE BOOKS.](Emphasis added) They have given a fake or a stolen Social Security number…” This means they are paying the same Income Taxes that Joe Legal pays, with no hope of getting a refund check if they overpay. You can see the debate at http://www.cato.org/event.php?eventid=7334. I invite you to watch the entire debate, but you can hear the above quote soon after the 45 min. mark.

But let’s look at the numbers from the FAIR Executive Summary
"This report estimates the annual costs of illegal immigration at the federal, state and local level to be about $113 billion; nearly $29 billion at the federal level and $84 billion at the state and local level. Since avoid State and City taxes is almost impossible, lets deal with the Federal Taxes. The study estimates that Federal tax collections from illegal alien workers, both those in the above ground economy and those in the underground economy is $29 billion. It seems like $29 billion is not very much. According to the Pew Research Center (PRC) about 75% of the 11.2 million illegals work that is 8,400,000 if most of them are working on the books, (According to Kikorian.) say 60% that would mean 5,04,000 earning between $15,000-$35,000 or $27,250 average are paying taxes. If they average 18%, which is on the low side they would pay just under $25.2 billion, a difference of $3.8 billion. FAIR says, “Those receipts do not come close to the level of expenditures.” $3.8 billion seem pretty close to me, especially when our numbers does not include the higher tax % paid by the business owners on the increases profits that they earn by paying illegals off the books. The last thing the Summary authors say is,“in any case, [they] are misleading as an offset because over time unemployed and underemployed U.S. workers would replace illegal alien workers.” It seem, that that is not true. Alabama is having a hell of a time trying to hire unemployed, and underplayed to fill the 40,000 to 80,000 openings that illegal immigrant workers have caused by leaving the State.

In closing illegals can avoid only a very small percent of the State and City taxes. So their are paying their own way there.

Anonymous said...

Here, Straight from the US Treasury Inspector General:

"Of all of the 2010 ITIN filers, fewer than one-quarter paid any federal income taxes, which amounted to about $0.87 billion in total. Thus, on a net basis, ITIN filers gained $3.13 billion ($4.0 billion minus $0.87 billion) from the IRS in the 2010 processing year"

The Fed governement fully admits that illegals use ITIN numbers to scam the system. Few pay any Fed tax at all....yet they apply for the Child Tax Credit and got $4.2B in CREDITS from the US government in 2010.


http://www.cis.org/child-tax-credits-2011

February 3, 2012 8:16:00 PM PST